Hoppers Crossing Christian Church

08/01/2022

Sadly got a message from someone on here today which i wont post as it was quite a strange question. Got a strange reply showing a person who sadly has been deceived or hurt by a church in the past

"Seems like a generic reply not really any use at all. I am convinced most church people are just hypocrites i guess its a cushy job with tax breaks to be a feel good sunday blabber mouth. Goodbye"

Sadly what he says is true of some churches today. Noting what he said was incorrect about this home church given no income or tax breaks and ministry, true ministry, is certainly not a cushy job, only a cost in time and money to provide the ministry.

07/04/2021

Present at the Synod of Dort in 1618 was Bishop John Davenant (1572-1641) from England who said: "It may be truly said before Augustine and Pelagius, there was no question concerning the death of Christ, whether it was to be extended to all mankind, or to be confined only to the elect. For the Fathers..........not a word (that I know of) occurs among them of the exclusion of any persons by the decree of God. They agree that it is actually beneficial to those only who believe, yet everywhere confess that Christ died in behalf of all mankind...."

Augustine died in AD 429, and up to his time, at least, there is not the slightest evidence that any Christian ever dreamed of a propitiation for the elect alone. Even after him, the doctrine of limited propitiation was but slowly propagated, and for long but partially received. - James Morrison, The Extent of the Atonement (1882).

Quotes from Calvinist authors:
"...God desired for man to fall into sin....God created sin." - R.C. Sproul, Jr., Almighty Over All, 1999.
"All things that happen in all the world at any time and in all history - whether organic matter, vegetation, animal, man or angels (both good and evil ones) come to pass because God ordained them. Even sin, the fall of the devil from heaven, the fall of Adam, and every evil thought, word, and deed in all of history." - Edwin Palmer, The Five Points of Calvinism, 1999.

However the Bible says:
"..in Him is no sin...the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil," - 1 John 3:5-8
"Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death....Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls." - James 1:13-15;21

07/02/2021

From a Sunday sermon:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:44

Calvinists will interpret this verse to say that if the Father draws a person, then that person will come to Christ. They teach that if a person doesn't come to Christ, then the Father did not draw him. This they say demonstrates that no-one has the free will to choose for himself. (That is, unconditional election rather than election conditional upon God's foreknowledge.) If this teaching is presented aggressively, it can appear to be correct, unless you test all things. For instance, MacArthur's church (Grace Community Bible Church, California) states "All whom the Father calls to Himself will come in faith and all who come in faith the Father will receive". John 6:44 is one of their supporting verses. That is, if you are called, you will come; therefore, if you do not come, you were not called.

All this verse is saying is that every person who comes must have been called by the Father, yet it doesn't say that every person who is called by the Father must come.

In Jesus' day, to refuse a gift or invitation was to offend the one who offered it. In the parable of the wedding feast (Matthew 22:1-14) many are called but these refuse the invitation. So, the king punishes them and then calls others to the feast. The passage ends with "For many are called, but few are chosen". - Matthew 22:14.
Being invited (or called) to a wedding feast was an important event not to be treated lightly. But you could still refuse that invitation.
You couldn't attend a wedding feast unless you had an invitation, a calling to be there. They had to be personally invited by the father of the groom.
Calvinists say the word "draw" means to "drag" or "force". It can mean that, but what about John 12:32 where Jesus says "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all (men) to me." That is the same word "draw" used here. In order for Calvinists to explain this, they are forced to teach that "all" does not mean "all" but perhaps "all the elect".

Paul taught that man could indeed resist what God has ordained:
"Whosoever therefore resists the power, resists the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." - Romans 13:2
And Stephen, sitting in the council of the religious leaders, said to them:
"You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers (did), so (do) you." - Acts 7:51

Thus it is Scriptural to teach that man has a free will to accept or resist God.
So what John 6:44 is really saying is that you cannot come to Christ unless the Father has drawn you. It cannot deny that all have been drawn to Christ (John 12:32) with many people consequently resisting that drawing. All who come must have been drawn, but it cannot equate to "all that are drawn must come". That's backward logic, like saying that because a dog is an animal with four legs, then all animals with four legs must be dogs.

24/01/2021

Taken from a Sunday sermon:

Romans 9:6-13

King James Version

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (miseo).

Paul explains how Israel became the chosen nation over Esau who was therefore rejected. The election of Israel cannot be used to prove the election of individuals in any way.
(a) Note that the word "hated" is miseo. Note what this word means and that it is usually a comparative term, meaning "loved less".
Note what biblehub.com says about this word. 3404 miseo - properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favour of another. Luke 14:26: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate (miseo, 'love less' than the Lord) his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple". (Note the comparative meaning (miseo) which centres in moral choice, elevating one value over another). biblehub.com/greek/3404.htm
Also compare these two equivalent verses, which demonstrate this point. Clearly "hate" must be translated as "love less", because both these verses are telling us to love God more than anyone else.
Luke 14:26 - "If any man come to me, and hate (miseo) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple".
Matthew 10:37 - "He that loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me."

(b) This passage in Romans talks about the election of a special nation for God. Logically the choice of one nation means no other nation may be chosen. Only one nation can be chosen as God's people. But Calvinists try to say that this somehow proves the election of individuals, which is totally incorrect, for if that were so, then only one might be chosen at the expense of everyone else.

(c) If Israel were God's elect nation, and they sinned more than the other nations around them (2 Chronicles 33:9), and most of them were eternally condemned (this is what Paul is saying at the start of Romans 9), then we must conclude that being chosen by God is likely to lead to sin and eternal punishment. How far are Calvinists willing to carry their analogy here?

(d) Calvinists are forced to concede that, without free will, God must have ordained Israel to fall into sin and error, thus causing Him to reject them. Do Calvinists understand that by using this passage in Romans to prove unconditional election, they have to assume that God might also have chosen them (the elect of God) in order to also ordain them to sin against Him and be sent to Hell?

Online Bible Study Suite. Topical, Greek and Hebrew study tools, plus concordances, commentaries, sermons and devotionals.

24/01/2021

Romans 9:17-18

King James Version

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Calvinists teach that God made Pharaoh to do what he did without any input from the will of Pharaoh. Certainly God is able to do this if He desires, but does this passage deny Pharaoh any free will in the matter? So let's look at the facts and you decide for yourself what you want to believe.

(a) "Raised up" can mean "to arouse; raise up (from sleep); to rouse up; stir up; incite". It literally means to have made Pharaoh to stand where he did, probably figuratively. Either Pharaoh was literally made to do this (like a puppet) or else Pharaoh had already chosen to be opposed to God's will, and God merely then caused those choices to remain in position until the battle with Moses was over.
It is similar to the statement: "The devil made me do it!" Does that mean the devil actually took control of that person's life such that the person, like a puppet, had literally no say in the matter, or did the devil so influence that person because of that person's previous free will choices to serve the devil?
Was God's will concerning Pharaoh the cause of his wilful rebellion, or was it the consequence of Pharaoh's wilful rebellion? The context demonstrates the latter.

(b) "whom he will he hardens" - That word "hardens" is skleruno from which we get sclerosis, a term that all medical people will readily understand. It is a process that hardens bodily parts (like arteries) and takes away their flexibility. It literally sets them in the shape they were in before. After sclerosis occurs, the body part cannot be easily moved around without damage.
This is similar to the Old Testament meanings for "harden". We'll look at chazak and kabad; both are used in relation to Pharaoh.
chazaq - strengthen, harden, prevail, sustain, encourage, grow rigid. It is clear that its main meaning has to do with strengthening or reinforcing a position.
The Old Testament context of the hardening of Pharaoh's heart has this meaning: that Pharaoh was hardened in the position that he (Pharaoh) had been in before the hardening. He no longer had the ability to change! He had chosen and now God required him to remain that way.
"And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not to them; as the Lord had spoken to Moses." - Exodus 9:12
kabad - to make heavy, dull, unresponsive - more of an act of Pharaoh's will here, relating to his lack of response to God's requirements.
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not to them; as the Lord had said." - Exodus 8:15

13/01/2021

the following taken from SECW and written by Morrie who is (or was?) in charge of Teen Challenge in Adelaide and from his newsletter of 2001:

"Brothers and sisters - this the Lukewarm Generation. Simply compare what Jesus said about the lukewarm Laodicean church with what today is called the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus warned that a church would evolve in the last days of civilisation that would boast that it was rich, growing and increasing in numbers, and self-sufficient. (Revelation 3:17).
The Laodicean church accepts sin and sits down with unrighteousness. For example, a memorandum of understanding between the South Australian heads of Christian Churches and the Australian Hotels Association to tackle problem gambling. By what teaching of Jesus do we sign an agreement with a group that is motivated by greed, and whose fruits are destruction?
You can be sure God has a people for Himself in these final days, but they are a despised, holy and separated remnant. The true church cannot enjoy the favour of the world. When will we ever face up to what Jesus warned was ahead for those who deny themselves, take up their cross and follow Him?
Jesus said, "If the world hate you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own; but because you are not of the world, but I have you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. .........If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; (John 15:18-21).
Paul states, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution" - 2 Timothy 3:12.
For centuries, Spirit-led men and women of God have been burned at the stake, sawn asunder, chased and hunted down like animals. Godly saints were beheaded; others were drowned; many were thrown to the lions. The Bible says they all died in faith and the world was not worthy of them.
Will the soul winners be replaced with petitioners going into the highways and hedges seeking signatures for some social cause?
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" - John 18:36.
"But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word, are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. We, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein lives righteousness. - 2 Peter 3:7,10,13.
"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout. With the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Comfort one another with these words." - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18.
Morrie

15/02/2020

So far of all the questions asked of calvinists, not one has been answered. All we have received is comments that seem slightly aggressive because we do not agree with Todd Friel and his belief that if you asked Jesus into your heart then you are not saved.

But whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. It isnt a gospel of, for God so loved the elect, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whosoever of the elect (which cant resist so must come anyhow) who should believe in Him shall not perish but will have everlasting life.

https://www.hopperscrossingchristianchurch.com/news/

Lots of blog questions to be answered and every verse the calvinists provide as their proof that calvinism is the gospel, is debunked by using the bible. If people believe in calvinism rather than the gospel (which they call the gospel, they have to or else they would be believing in another gospel) then one has to ask, what are they believing in?

Personally, i believe in Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. HE is the only way the truth and the life.

Getting back to the comments we get about friel, his doctrines would state myself and many other evangelical non calvinist Christians are not saved. Because what i beleive from the bible is at odds with what he believes. Both doctrines cannot be true. If i believe i call upon the name of the Lord, believing in Him and what He has done on the cross, and friel believes i am not saved because i called upon the name of the Lord to be saved (which is what asking Jesus into your heart meant), then he and I are not on the same side.

But then as friel is calvinist, he must believe one cannot call upon the name of the Lord unless already regenerated (born again, saved) first, ie elect, chosen.

I do believe in election. But i also believe in free will choice. We are responsible and accountable for this free will God has given us. Most will reject Jesus. Most will not seek Jesus. But that doesn't mean the gospel cant shine a light so that some will come. The gospel is powerful. It is truth. It offends. People who hear it can try to ignore it, or avoid hearing it, or straight out reject it, or accept it. But it offends cause truth offends our lustful nature. It means we have to be willing to give up that comfort zone most of us have.

Our election is by the foreknowledge of God who is not bound by time or having to write a sript to dictate everything like some calvinists have alluded to. A truly sovereign God can give His created beings a measure of free will and still be totally God. A dictator would force subjects to either remain unsaved or saved. As in no responsibility or accountability. That would just make God totally responsible for the entire outcome. And also accountable. God is not evil nor did so much of the evil man has done, even cross his mind, in that He does not dwell on evil thoughts and actions. This evil and rebellion came from minds such as Satan.

Choose this day whom you will serve.

Impossible Questions for Calvinists Part 60 Comments/02/02/2020Impossible Questions for Calvinists Part 6 Calvinists won't answer… https://www.hopperscrossingchristianchurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/cross-logo-300x227.png 0 0 Andrew Dunstone https://www.hopperscrossingchristianchurch.com/wp-...

15/02/2020

It makes me sad that so many who i believed were good christians have fallen to false doctrines. False doctrines such as calvinism. Where they post a few verses to somehow prove no free will in salvation yet none of the verses they post actually disprove freewill. And many they use to support them, one must use a preconceived assumption of no freewill to prove their point. When man uses verses to back up their own ideas and doctrines, rather than just accepting what the bible says, it makes me sad.

So many out there including pastors and church leaders have such a lack of understanding and discernment these days that they seem to just believe anything they are told just because they are told by a so called respected teacher.

Here is a thought, rather than read books written by man about their opinions on certain bible doctrines or passages or verses, start studying the bible. Not some translation that removes a heap of God's word either. And when i say study, most christians, majority, do not have a good understanding of the bible. The depth they have is scratching the surface at best. I know this cause thats how i was. Then i realised just how much churches i was attending were not teaching us.

05/05/2019

Whilst there have been many attacks on the exposing truth website, we have started to see fruit from this ministry. Some even said this ministry will not see fruit (no reason given of course), but we have heard from many who are finding comfort and also being able to use the material to fight against false doctrines such as calvinism.

17/03/2019

God is eternal (no beginning nor end). He can see all points in time simultaneously as He is not bound by time and is at all points in time simultaneously. John 8.58 Before Abraham was, I AM. God is in our future, past and present simultaneously. This is what eternal is, not bound by time. Even when Jesus came to earth at a point in our timeline, Jesus was not bound by time.

So God can make promises that will come to pass and He can see the fulfillment of them at the same time as He makes the promise.

Any doctrine or belief system that tries to limit God's actions or consequences to points in time is not serving the eternal God of the bible.

I wanted to explain this as a number of Calvinists teachers have seemingly mocked the idea of foreknowledge meaning foreknowledge (as in God's knowledge of whether men will choose Him or not in our future). They often use a phrase such as 'God looked down through the corridors of time to see who would choose Him'. They are referring to those who believe in election by foreknowledge of God.

To me this is a mockery of God as they seem to limit God to having to look down the corridors of time to be able to see man's response. Yet God is eternal so why would He look down the corridors of time? Think of a panorama. God can see all of time laid out before Him. He is I AM.

Trying to keep this short so if you would like quotes using the phrase i mentioned above, comment here and i can send.

Will leave on a quote from Boettner (the reformed doctrine of predestination p30) 'Common sense tells us that no event cant be foreknown unless by some means, either physical or mental, it has been predetermined.'

Clearly the god of Boettner is not eternal. His god is not able to foreknow things. Additionally, he doesnt say the bible says this, rather common sense. We know what the bible says about the way of man. Our common sense should not be our guide. But Boettner says a lot of things that certainly are not backed up by any scripture.